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koriandr
Aug. 30th, 2004 06:01 am (UTC)
Aww...how cute!

By seriously though, I find it crazy that the only way Starfire got some more dedicated fans if from an ill made, off character cartoon.

Go figure
skrain_bodak
Aug. 30th, 2004 12:34 pm (UTC)
Yeah I mean it's still Titans but I do see a lot of off continuity stuff and I haven't really delved far into Titans.

The most blatant and obvious is the length of Terra's hair but then again this ISN'T the 70's or early 80's when the original hairstyle was popular.

I forgot....what happened to Terra in the comic version? Did she die, retire? Is she still around somewhere?

But at least it's in the anime style....

btw, do I remember it right that in the Titans, Beast Boy isn't Beast Boy but his name was Changeling? I forgot which team he was Changeling in, Titans or Doom Patrol I?

I like KUWAAAABAAAAAARAAAAA too. :P Do you think him and Yusuke are quite alike? I like Keiko and Botan too.

And did you know that Botan is a play on words? It means "button" or "peony" so a good anime pickup line one can use on a lady is "You remind me of Yu Yu Hakusho because you're as cute as a Botan."

(Lame huh?)

And using Dove I on JLU is kinda lame, it's like using John Stewart as GL and also when they used Hawkgirl but never had Hawkman on? I mean even though it's just about as sexist as calling almost all super-females "something"-GIRL, you still would never see Hawkgirl WITHOUT Hawkman! Think about it, they were together in the Justice League, they had their own series together both when it was Hawkman and then when it was Hawkworld.....

I think they should have kinda stuck with continuity though because hey, it's separate from the Batman and Superman movies...10-20+ years is kinda hard for someone to go in and make sequels putting in stuff that could lead to a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie.

Anyway....still if the creators of the CN series wanted to use the Watchtower, they should have the version with the Watchtower!! Not take what apparently is a sampling of members from however many incarnations the team had over the years. If they wanted Green Lantern they should have picked Kyle Rayner, they should have left out Hawkgirl b/c she bit it years ago (though I see now where they need someone to have a more likely romance than Batman and anyone else though they did throw a bone last week)...and they should have put in Plastic Man.

That way it would kinda sorta be canon and if they needed to refer to whatever happened in the past like Crisis or Zero Hour or Armageddon 2001 then they would.

Even though I loved seeing Hawk and Dove the other week...a part of me wanted to yell "Hello!!! #1) Dove I died in Crisis ish 12 and #2) Hawk became Monarch in Armageddon 2001!"
koriandr
Aug. 30th, 2004 02:11 pm (UTC)
>>>>>Yeah I mean it's still Titans but I do see a lot of off continuity stuff and I haven't really delved far into Titans.

From what I've seen, just about all of it is off continuity. Another reason why I haven't watched many eps. I couldn't, and keep my self respect.

>>>>>The most blatant and obvious is the length of Terra's hair but then again this ISN'T the 70's or early 80's when the original hairstyle was popular.

It was long? I don't ever, not once in 22 years, have I seen her with long hair.

>>>>>I forgot....what happened to Terra in the comic version? Did she die, retire? Is she still around somewhere?

This should answer your question. http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/terra.html

>>>>>But at least it's in the anime style.

I suppose they get credit for something...

>>>>>btw, do I remember it right that in the Titans, Beast Boy isn't Beast Boy but his name was Changeling? I forgot which team he was Changeling in, Titans or Doom Patrol I?

Gar started out as Beast Boy in the Doom Patrol. When he joined the Teen Titans, he changed his name to Changling. Now as a mentor for this new group, and in a story arch ovre two years ago, he went back to Beast Boy.

>>>>>I like KUWAAAABAAAAAARAAAAA too. :P Do you think him and Yusuke are quite alike?

Personally, I think Kuwabara and Yusuke are two sides of the same coin. They both are as alike, as they are totally different. Don't let me start on this, or I'll be here all day.

>>>>> I like Keiko and Botan too.

Me too! :P

>>>>>And did you know that Botan is a play on words? It means "button" or "peony" so a good anime pickup line one can use on a lady is "You remind me of Yu Yu Hakusho because you're as cute as a Botan." (Lame huh?)

Yeah, but cute.

>>>>>And using Dove I on JLU is kinda lame, it's like using John Stewart as GL and also when they used Hawkgirl but never had Hawkman on? I mean even though it's just about as sexist as calling almost all super-females "something"-GIRL, you still would never see Hawkgirl WITHOUT Hawkman! Think about it, they were together in the Justice League, they had their own series together both when it was Hawkman and then when it was Hawkworld.

You forget, Cartoon and Movie makers care nothing for the cannon of comicbooks. I learned that the hard way with the Batman movies!

>>>>>I think they should have kinda stuck with continuity though because hey, it's separate from the Batman and Superman movies...10-20+ years is kinda hard for someone to go in and make sequels putting in stuff that could lead to a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie.

I wish, but not gonna happen.

>>>>>Anyway....still if the creators of the CN series wanted to use the Watchtower, they should have the version with the Watchtower!! Not take what apparently is a sampling of members from however many incarnations the team had over the years. If they wanted Green Lantern they should have picked Kyle Rayner, they should have left out Hawkgirl b/c she bit it years ago (though I see now where they need someone to have a more likely romance than Batman and anyone else though they did throw a bone last week)...and they should have put in Plastic Man.

True, True...its all true.

>>>>>That way it would kinda sorta be canon and if they needed to refer to whatever happened in the past like Crisis or Zero Hour or Armageddon 2001 then they would.

Even though I loved seeing Hawk and Dove the other week...a part of me wanted to yell "Hello!!! #1) Dove I died in Crisis ish 12 and #2) Hawk became Monarch in Armageddon 2001!"

Wow...you sound like me. Whata fanboy! (I mean that in the nicest way!)
skrain_bodak
Aug. 30th, 2004 12:45 pm (UTC)
btw....I doubt it, but is the original Starfire just as ditzy as on the toon?
koriandr
Aug. 30th, 2004 01:39 pm (UTC)
Oh Hell No.

It's one of the reasons I don't watch the cartoon. If I did, I could kiss my self respect down the drain. This will explain what Kory's personality should have been like from the people that know her best: The Creators.

Marv Wolfman on Starfire

Starfire Q & A from Comics Journal #79-80


DECKER: The characterization of Kory - ... I'm not sure how you pronounce that name.

WOLFMAN: Kor-e-an-door. Spelled differently, it's a spice. It's the first time I'm revealing it. C-o-r-i-a-n-d-e-r, and I adapted it

DECKER: Her characterization is interesting in that she's almost a very well-developed nymphet.

WOLFMAN: Yes, that's part of it. She also is very innocent and she's been tortured and has had a lot of other problems, but it hasn't affected her basic personality. I assume there was a point that you were going to make about her being a nymphet, though she doesn't jump into bed with everybody.

DECKER: But still she's an interesting character in that we haven't seen many like her in comics. An intelligently done nymphet. There's no real point about her I want to make, l'm just trying to run through the characters.

WOLFMAN: Of the characters in the Titans, the three new ones I created, I tried to give the most background, the back story as they say in television and movies. In the case of Cyborg, it's a more realistic handling. Certainly Raven and Starfire are science fiction and therefore pretty much unrealistic in terms of things that could have happened. I like all three consequently because there are actual things to play off of. I tried to do the same thing with [Tomb of] Dracula and all the characters in there. To give them full lives before they actually entered the book. Kory's life comes out in the next four issues.

The Starfire storyline on Tamaran, which is the last one of the mini-series, almost all of which I had worked out even before the first issue came out. I knew what she had done, how she had escaped, how she was tortured, all the things with her sister. I wanted someone who had gone through all this and still emerged pretty much an optimist, someone who doesn't necessarily see the pessimistic view of things, even though she's warlike. It's a strange dichotomy, and I sort of took some of it from a Japanese handling from someone who could love the beauty of nature and then turn around and slice someone's head off in the same moment, and not see the contrast between the two.

DECKER: In the first couple of issues she turns up and the bad guys are after her, and the Titans pretty much rescue her, but she hangs around after that, she doesn't seem to have any other place to go.

WOLFMAN: Well, she can't go back home. And that sort of makes it difficult to do much of anything. She has to stay around. These are people which she can associate with because of their abilities and they are the ones she became friendly with. I'm certain that someone like her or Raven, who came from fairly different type backgrounds than the rest of the Titans, once they get to know other people will start associating with them. Certainly in Kory's case, maybe not with Raven, who is very very shy. But I think the proximity has made them friends, rather than deliberating setting up a friendship because of accidental meeting.


koriandr
Aug. 30th, 2004 01:43 pm (UTC)
George Perez: The Art of Starfire - Creating Starfire

Perez: "The Starfire character was something that Marv did want to do, he wanted to have a strong female alien character. [...] I worked first from a visual point of view, devising the feline look to Koriand'r, off the basically Red Sonja look at first. Joe Orlando was the one who came in after seeing the original drawing and saying, "Make her hair a little longer," and little did he know what he wrought. And, the Raven and Cyborg characters, like Starfire, were designed once. They were all designed once, like Raven's costume, which was a slight modification of my own choice. But they said, "Design a few designs per character." To me, that seemed like work. So I designed them once, and I figured if they didn't like it, then they could show me what they did want. That's a lot easier than trying to second-guess them without really knowing if the first one was all right or not. "

George discussed the Titans, as well as how they are artistically-interpreted. Starfire, who is a particular fan favorite, is the free spirit of the team. She's a contributing factor in the miraculous maturing of Dick Grayson. Koriand'r is nymph, stoic, and warrior laced into one being; a wild sexuality, gentle innocence, and samurai toughness which all combine into one of the most quick-thinking, authentically optimistic, and well-received characters in contemporary literature. The product of a culture where total honesty is the creed, the duplicity of human behavior is a constant wonder for her. She is each of us, without our troublesome masks and fears.

A standout of Perez's artistry is his ability to render such an emotionally rooted being without the traditional focus of eyes. "My one advantage, particularly here, is body language. I've been commended for that, and it's been a gratifying feeling. It's been such a subtle build-up that I hadn't really noticed it, until other people were mentioning it. The characters move in the way the characters should move, in contrast to everyone having interchangeable poses.

"There's also a little secret in handling Starfire, and it's one that makes her face work. If you go back to the Blackfire storyline you'll notice, since Kory is-in a lot of cases-very angry, her hairline is slightly higher, so her eyebrows can be seen. When she's in that soft, demure, sad or happy type look, her eyebrows aren't shown at all because the curls are so low and they curl upwards; thus making an 'upward movement on the eyes right where they meet into the nose area to the forehead. Gives the eyes a slightly upraised, innocent look. So the curls end up softening her face, and they're swept back any time I don't want her to have the soft look.

"In working the character to that degree, no one notices it, because her face seems to work. Marv never noticed it until I pointed it Out. It's those wonderful curls, basically a larger version of Dick Grayson's old curls [laughs] which make up the soft look. The only thing the eyes lack is the fact that they just can't show direction as far as where she's looking. As tar as expression, it's absolutely no hindrance. The fact that they're so round gives her a feline look. which works for her."

ANDY: When you started developing the individual characters, the individual faces of the TEEN TITANS, who did you base the characters on? You've often said that Changeling was a young Mickey Rooney. But who were the others in real life?

GEORGE: In real life, let's see now... Koriand'r, she's so many characters I've used: Marilyn Monroe, my first wife, oh gosh, there was a stripper somewhere, ..... . (Laughter.) She was so many.

koriandr
Aug. 30th, 2004 01:46 pm (UTC)
Starfire Develops [From Comics Scene #7] Perez stopped to laugh and then admitted that Starfire was created as the group's sex symbol. "When the book developed a fan following and we knew the characters meant something to these people. We knew Starfire couldn't just remain a bubblehead, she has to have a character of her own which Marv developed wonderfully."

As fans may have noticed, Perez has a fondness for drawing women. As he puts it, he enjoys drawing "healthy" women, but over the years he has refined his drawing style and "the women have thinned out finally, because they were too thunder-thighed in the beginning. Starfire is the most zaftig of the group. Wonder Girl is very attractive, she has a starlet's figure; she is perfectly assembled. I find her the most alluring, most satisfying woman in the lot. She is the one Titan I would most like to meet.
youkai_lady
Aug. 30th, 2004 03:12 pm (UTC)
ummmm go starfire go.....
_oh_man_
Aug. 30th, 2004 05:27 pm (UTC)
Terra's so much better!
( 9 comments — Leave a comment )